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IF YOU CAN NOT "DO" THEN CRITICIZE THOSE WHO "DID"

FOR ALL WHO READ THIS BEFORE JUST SKIP DOWN TO THE COMMENTS SECTION TO SEE THE RESULTS OF THE POSTING BY A YOUNG MAN WHO HAS THE SITE "THIS AIN'T HELL BUT YOU CAN SEE IT FROM HERE" AND HAS CHOSEN TO REMAIN NAMELESS. I AM VERY GRATEFUL NOW FOR HIS ATTACKS ON MYSELF AS THEY HAVE LED TO MY BEING HELPED IN WAYS I NEVER FELT WERE POSSIBLE.

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I came across this posting that basically was, it seems, a group of young folks tearing into a man who they feel misrepresented his service record while on the campaign trail.

Please follow this link: THIS AIN'T HELL ... BUT YOU CAN SEE IT FROM HERE

It is my wish that everyone who has served in the Vietnam Campaign add a comment to set this generation of "Nancy boy" character assassinators straight. It seems there are many people today who know more about what other people had done forty or so years ago than the folks who were actually there doing it all!

The following was my "two cents" that I posted. It appears this article was over a year old so I am a little late but here it is anyway!

 #46 Lieutenant Frederick Georges Says: 

People,
I see a lot of confusing remarks that seem to be coming from individuals who have never had the “privilege” of being “government property” and following orders from superiors you must obey but sometimes you just do not trust.
I was also ordered to follow a certain protocol upon separation from the NAVY similar to what I read here, no travel to the “offending” countries and no divulging my experiences to any “public institution”. Whatever that exactly means! There was more but not related to the comments or the article here.
I do not understand where some of you people get your information from. Do you just google it? If so you are being deprived of the thrill of having ever dealt with some “dick waving” a****** who is completely lost to military mind sets and conditioning and so therefor will order you to do and act in ways that can not be discovered with an internet search!
It is disheartening to read some of the comments here as it is clear you have never served back in a time when it was acceptable to ignore a persons civil rights and physically abuse them if need be to perfect order and compliance with military “rules”. Yes “Nancy boy’s” they could beat your ass bloody and you had recourse none! If you defended yourself you would be slapped with a insubordination writ, court marshaled and sent to the brig.
Things were different and it is a matter of fact that if you served in any branch of the military during the Vietnam Campaign you were issued a “National Defense” medal that made you a “Vietnam Era” Serviceman! You did not have to have been in any of the many countries in support of the Vietnam Campaign or in Vietnam at all. You would still be “Vietnam Era” Serviceman. There were no Servicewomen then, in fact you called a superior officer who was female “Sir”! There was no feminist b******* back then so do not bother to correct my use of the title Serviceman. We were all called Serviceman, nobody cared about what sex you were back then. Race was an issue, gender was not.
It was not my intention to educate any of you “know it all’s” but to simply put in the “two cents” from a sailor who was actually there, in SPECOPS and did have some of his records burned in the Indiana NAVPRS depot fire in 1973. I know who I am and what I did. To be honest I am relieved that no one can ever prove now that I committed these acts and deeds as some of them were nothing to be proud of enough to want to take credit for.
Good luck with your “character assassinating”, it seems to be what this generation does best. If you can not “do” then criticize those who “did” so no one will notice that you are not even interesting enough to make people sick.
Sincerely,
GEORGES,F. B170696 W-1 United States NAVY
SPECOPS/EOM-NSA IV CORPS Vietnam Support Unit-Thailand

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Well here we are again Mr Lilyea. Yet another benefit that I would not have had if you had not doubted my service to America. Because of you I now have a $6,000 pair of high tech hearing aids!

I hope you continue to falsely accuse others so they are urged to show you and your little band of cyber terrorists who go out of your way to defame veterans that sometimes you are wrong to do so.

For the "back story" to this comment I urge all who read this to go to the site created by this young man who feels he knows everything and is quick to cite others for their service to their country.

JONN LILYEA

For those of you who wish to visit Mr. Lilyea click on this link :JONN LILYEA FACEBOOK PAGE

As I told you Mr. Lilyea... you need to calm down and be patient and at some point the government will get around to the responsibility it has to all of it's citizens.

Again, as always... I thank you. 

LATEST ADDITION TO THE MANY UNEXPECTED AND UNSOLICITED BENEFITS GLEANED AS A RESULT OF JOHN LILYEA'S INVESTIGATION OF MY LIFE.  Thank you sir! Keep up the good work.

HERE IS YET ANOTHER GIFT TO MYSELF THAT I WOULD NEVER HAVE RECEIVED IF NOT FOR THE ATTACKS ON MY RECORD BY JONN LILYEA.

THANK YOU JONN ! ( Do you still think all I did was work on that sub tender in New London Mr. Lilyea?)

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Comment by Lieutenant Frederick Georges on April 13, 2015 at 11:10pm

Friends of Lilyea I offer this to you: MY REASON FOR CRYING

Comment by Lieutenant Frederick Georges on March 29, 2015 at 7:50pm

I finally got to see the "headbenders". The results of my years of coping with my military combat experiences coupled with my marital failures seems to have caused me to be perceived as "threatening".

Here are the results and recommendations from the VA :

 Again Mr. Lilyea you have my thanks for helping me open doors that have been shut for nearly 45 years. Now to deal with the consequences.

Comment by Lieutenant Frederick Georges on February 14, 2014 at 11:51am

Well here we are again Mr Lilyea. Yet another benefit that I would not have had if you had not doubted my service to America. Because of you I now have a $6,000 pair of high tech hearing aids!


Find more videos like this on FirefighterCountry

I hope you continue to falsely accuse others so they are urged to show you and your little band of cyber terrorists who go out of your way to defame veterans that sometimes you are wrong to do so.

For the "back story" to this comment I urge all who read this to go to the site created by this young man who feels he knows everything and is quick to cite others for their service to their country.
Link: JONN LILYEA

As I told you Mr. Lilyea... you need to calm down and be patient and at some point the government will get around to the responsibility it has to all of it's citizens

Comment by Lieutenant Frederick Georges on September 14, 2013 at 11:23am

I copied this response to my latest comment from the young man who is responsible for the site that affords "flesh eating toadies" to gang up on people they choose to hate and run them down at the mouth. He posted this response on my Facebook page.

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Jonn Lilyea Lyin' sack of shit. First of all, I didn't write that anonymously - I'm right f****** here, a******. Now, if you'd be kind enough to prove us wrong with some sort of paperwork instead of playing secret squirrel like the rest of the phonies, I'd fix it. But, of course, you won't be forthcoming with any sort of proof, so darken our door step never more.
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As you can see he has serious issues to deal with and can only reply with vulgar, profane and useless character assassination. He never has intelligent, accurate or meaningful information to justify his outrage. He can not even remember from attack to attack on others what he has previously stated.
I feel everyone should visit his Facebook page and offer to him some guidance and sympathy. Just click on his name above to go straight to his page :-)
Comment by Lieutenant Frederick Georges on August 27, 2013 at 11:47pm

WOW!, in less than one month after filing with the VA rep in my district I have been afforded a great deal of help and more will be forthcoming. I thank the young man, who has chosen to remain nameless for obvious reasons, for his willful abuse to myself and others at the "this ain't hell but you can see it from here" website that has led to all of my recent assistance from the VA system.

This document shows but some of the good that will be coming my way because of one persons hateful attempts toward others who gave for their country and asked for nothing more in return but the freedom we all enjoy and too many take for granted.

Note how fast the response was... less than one month!                                                                                                                  

Again more progress. Thanks to you Jon Lilyea. Be patient and wait for things to just keep happening. I had my hearing aid impressions made this week and will get my devices shortly.

Apparently sometimes good things do come from bad intentions. I still feel the efforts should go to the people who lost body parts and were permanently scared both physically and mentally rather than myself. But I have also, as a result of the abuse from Mr. nameless, had the opportunity to see a VA psychiatrist which I have wanted to do for decades now. His recommendations have already brought some peace of mind to me. For that I am most grateful to the little flesh eater and all of his hateful buddies who seem to have no idea of what suffering, sacrifice and acceptance is all about.

Comment by Lieutenant Frederick Georges on May 12, 2013 at 11:03pm

 I have noticed that the creator of the page this post is linked to that has been an endless stream of attacks on Mayor Spodofora and now myself has stated in the beginning that the Mayor had falsely claimed he was a medal of valor recipient and now the latest comment by the youngster who is doing all the finger pointing is that the Mayor had claimed to be the recipient of the Medal of Honor! It seems this child needs desperately to feel he is better then others and can not match their accomplishments so he chooses to try to tarnish the life of others by spewing negative comments and citing others for being frauds. It seems he becomes so passionate about exposing everyone that he can not keep his own story straight.

Clearly my initial observation, that led to my participation in the activity on the youngsters posting that he and his eager band of "yes men" can only be afforded information from Google searches because they were not present personally at events, has been correct. They have proved to myself and to others I have encouraged to read their comments, who have also experienced the loss, altering or lack of documentation of our military records, that they lack the understanding of a governments ability to make a good thing bad and a bad thing worse. We have all had a much needed and appreciated laugh at the observations and comments made by the young fella who spent his own time filling out forms to investigate my military service record. He was sent information that was incomplete and left him believing he had uncovered some dark secret. I only wish he had searched earlier because at one point in time, November of 1983, my service records did not exist at all. The office worker at Togus VA hospital in Maine said he would look into it and get back to me. It was not long before it was clear that my files were being willfully mismanaged after I spoke to several other vets who were experiencing similar problems. Bottom line, the government was doing what was needed to save as much money as possible by making certain servicemen who had non life threatening or life long injuries, fight to get assistance. If you were not up to the task of spending a lot of time and money to secure benefits by going to court then Uncle Sam could write your claim off.

Line 11a on my DD214N reads " type of transfer or discharge = Discharged" To my knowledge there are several types of discharge from active duty, "Discharged" is not one of them. Section 11b reads "station or installation at which effected = NAVAL HOSPITAL". Section 13a reads "character of service = under honorable conditions". Being a government document naturally there will be the usual labyrinth like effect on the mind but still it should be understood by anyone with a high school education that I was discharged from the hospital, not the service at that time. I went to a school in Florida to be trained as an ordnance tech which was the first step on my journey that ultimately ended in the forth corps command base.

If I just had the time, money and ability to give a tinkers dam about perfecting the proper paper trail to show all of this activity and went to court and won!, then the hungry sleuth who spends his valuable time after working his day job, eating well, sleeping when he can and enjoying the comforts of a woman could have been rewarded with all of the evidence he would need to prove that I was an insignificant commander of a non-combat unit who's mission was not dis-similar to your average manager of your local Wal-Mart. Nothing to be ashamed of but certainly nothing to brag about so I fail to see why I am accused by this young inexperienced person of being a Vietnam "wanna-be" as he stated it. As I see it, not many veterans from that war wanted to be there at all at the time. Today most who were there are reluctant to stand up and be counted because as I understand the facts,... WE LOST!

Oh well, maybe when he matures and possibly has to go and experience this type of abusive fecal storm for himself, he will be more understanding. Especially if his records are scattered to the winds like ours were:-) 

Comment by Lieutenant Frederick Georges on May 8, 2013 at 9:15pm

People, you have got to see this stuff!! These people are really "fun to watch". You make statements regarding this or that and they hit the wall running accusing and citing you for your looks, body size and question your sexual orientation but never, if at all, touch on the remarks you make directly except to call you names and accuse you of being a failure in some way. It is a good group for psychiatry under grades to study. I do not know, or care, what their mission and mandate actually are but if you do not mind people digging into your personal or public life and being the object of scorn and ridicule then dive right in and make a comment. Just make stuff up would be best and watch the "ring leader" of the toadies go right for the your neck. I am impressed with the fact that almost all who comment here will not disclose who they are. They Make up seriously juvenile handles and are hard pressed to ever make statements that are coherent. It seems they leave out words they feel the reader will just insert or their fingers are moving faster than their minds and they never proof read anything:-) Come and enjoy the ride, I am! 

Comment by Lieutenant Frederick Georges on March 17, 2013 at 12:03pm

I wish to comment on the reaction of the commenters at the posting about the individual who shared his personal information only to be picked apart by people who were in my opinion intimidated by the accomplishments of the man. I was drawn to the posting while "surfing the web" for an unrelated matter when I read: "Another Phony Vietnam vet politician" and the eye catching words under it: : This Ain't Hell But You Can See It From Here". I feel this would tempt any curious person to have a look.

I was curios why the words: "Vietnam War Medal Of Valor Recipient" was highlighted. As I read on it was clear that the creator of the post had their nose out of joint over the mans accomplishments and so set out to cut him up!

He checked, whatever source material, to discover there is no award given called the "Medal Of Valor". I understand that their are several "Medals Of Valor" awarded to military personnel such as the Bronze Star, Silver Star, NAVY Cross and so on. These are Medals for valor. Also are the "NAVY Meritorious Unit Commendation" and the " Joint Meritorious Unit" awards. None of these are called the "Medal of Valor" but they are for those who have shown valor in the face of adversity so I was confused as to why this commenter made such a fuss over the mans choice of words in his personal resume'.

I posted a comment of my own that was condemning of the detractors for two reasons. One, I felt it was irresponsible for the individual that created the posting to be so critical of another accomplished human being. Second, I felt I probably did not know enough about the man being attacked, so I put up information about myself that could be easily scrutinized to discover if it was because these commenters hated the man or if they were just some more internet "professional detractors" who pride themselves in cutting up those who have done well in life. I felt if it were the former my comments would be simply dismissed as a supporter of the man. I found out otherwise as these flesh eating arm chair patriots tore into my posting pointing out my lack of education,( I can not spell well), passively accusing me of being a homosexual, citing my use of terms that were not perfectly grammatically or politically correct, questioning my service in the NAVY and basically calling me names that ridiculed my stations in the service for the country and community or just vulgar titles referring to human excrement and the male genitalia.

One commenter was outraged and ordered me to refer to him as "Master Chief Petty Officer" and another claimed to be aggravated that he was lumped into a category of the younger set because, he claims, he was born in 1940! I was doubtful that a 72 year old man was even bothering to be in this community of juveniles but, who knows!   

I have never been a Mayor of anything, nor did I serve in the Navy as long as Mayor Spodofora did or find myself aboard a submarine, except to repair them while serving on the sub tender Fulton AS-11 in New London Connecticut. I certainly have never had enough education to be the head of a department at a Naval Engineering Station as John Spodofora is and it seems he managed to keep a marriage together for 31 years, no small feat these days. So I am reluctant to defame this person. For this I was attacked myself.

From my perspective this is an accomplished, well educated and dedicated public servant who continued to give of himself to his country and community after his military duty was finished so I can only respect him as I am clearly inferior. I understand that people who are very remarkable like this person can and do intimidate others. I do not understand, yet, why but I am working on that as I have little else to do now that I am retired than educate myself in the areas of my choosing.

I feel that he has actually made no false reports, from what little that is presented in the posting about him, that should cause such an avalanche of criticizem. I read clearly that he states to be a Vietnam Era Veteran. It is to the best of my knowledge a proper declaration for anyone who served during the Vietnam Era Campaigns. I did not see any evidence of this man declaring he served in the country of Vietnam or any of the three supporting countries[ Laos, Cambodia or Thailand] so again I am at a loss to understand why the creator of the page claimed he did.

I am guilty of having never bothered to do more research on the Mayor. I have a justification for this, I do not care. This is but one of many of my obvious character flaws but I still feel after reviewing what was there that this man deserves more respect even if somewhere he did absolutely lie about being in direct support or deployment to the "shit storm" as we called it.

I for one am glad he was spared as he was saved to go forward and become so much more than just another casualty of war. I can not understand why it was socially unacceptable to admit you were a Vietnam Vet all during the mess and for twenty years or more after it all ended and now it is some big badge of honor to have been there so it compels flesh eaters like these cyber worriers to discredit your record of service.  I am happy to see today's returning Servicemen are not met by shouts of disapproval and spittle as we were. It is good to see that society is willing to try to understand the mental damage that is a direct result of combat and help is waiting. We were not so fortunate from all the earlier wars. I would have been grateful when I returned to have so many try to prove I was never there. This would have been a plus for me. I have lied about my service to many when I returned. I told everyone who asked "I was never there"! Still I could not find a job that I was completely qualified for, I mean washing dishes and janitorial work I was willing and able to do! But no one wanted "guy's like me" as they put it because we could be a danger to the other workers.

For all of us who were not at the My Lai massacre or dropping napalm on innocent villagers and have had to suffer the blow back of criticism from the many flesh eaters like this guy, I feel an obligation to stand up for your service when I feel your are being wrongly treated, even if I am wrong myself for being ignorant of the facts. 

There is no shame in being ignorant. The shame is being unwilling to learn. I dam sure do not know everything but I will be open to being educated as long as it does not come from profane, name calling bullies that hide their identity and just talk to be heard and noticed. Almost everyone who responded to my posting was of the same mind and found strength in numbers and the approval of their diatribe by others. The one post I noticed that was not approving of me but willing to at least look into the matter was number 68. It is clear that he was apologetic to the "pack" in his opening sentence but went on to say:   68fm2176 Says: 

"No offense meant to the other recent commenters, but I’m probably the youngest person to post here so far. I guess I could arguably be a part of the “‘Google’ generation” referred to above; many others my age are virtually dependent on their iCrap.

The title of Fireman Fritz’ blog post is ‘IF YOU CAN NOT “DO’ THEN CRITICIZE THOSE WHO ‘DID’”, which insinuates that all of those who commented on Mr. Spodofora are has-been critics looking to attack “real” veterans. It’s obvious that Fritz is not a regular here, as a majority of the responses have been made by people who “did” and some who continue to “do” in various manners. Despite my relative youth I’ll throw myself in the category of those who “do” and “have done”. Unless the “Google generation” is barred from joining such an exclusive club. Maybe in Fritz’ mind service after Vietnam is unworthy of mentioning…

I’ve stated elsewhere on this blog that I try to withhold judgement until all the facts are in. I have a great respect and admiration for those who came before me, and it takes more than a mere Google search for me to discount anyone’s service. That said, I think that things a person says and (to a lesser extent, due to third party influence) puts into print can go a long way towards discrediting that person."

I, Fireman Fritz, state for the record that service after my generation is anything but "unworthy of mentioning" as suggested by commenter #68 and I am lost as to how he has concluded that there is some sort of "club" that I represent. I have, like many others simply spoke my mind, me and me alone. There is no group or organization behind me. I have no need to be supported which is a condition that has evolved from decades of neglect and abuse from groups and organizations who have done little more for Veterans than ignore us. And finally, I did not make my statements to infer anyone who posted was guilty of anything. It was my opinion directed at whom ever was responsible for a certain behavior that is very common today. All who took my comments personally... took them personally!, what can I do? What could anyone do? Things happen in life, good and bad. How each of us reacts to it all is of our own making. There is nobody else to blame. It is "just the way you see it".

For a long time I heard "baby killer" and "dope addict" directed squarely at Vietnam Vets and I never became hostile towards these people because I was not one who did these horrible things. I am therefore at a loss to understand why so many on this posting become personally offended. If you are not like the people I have outlined why then all the outrage?

I do so very much appreciate and respect this commenter #68 for having the level headedness to respect us, the "people who came before me" as he states it. Thank you sir for your strength, wisdom and human decency to be willing to brave the wrath of the crowd and speak your mind.

You sir will be the hope of your generation. You will become among the leaders of tomorrow who will make the sacrifices to guide Americans to a better place. Unfortunately this will cast your efforts before the flesh eaters for scrutiny too. Good luck with that.

                     

HIGH RISE FIREFIGHTING

 


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